A Tale of One State: Pennsylvania

Given the latest entry, I’m going to have to tweak this one–it’ll be back up tonight or tomorrow. Sorry for any inconvenience.

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Explore posts in the same categories: Motorcycle Safety, Motorcycle Safety Foundation, Motorcycle Training, State Motorcycle Safety Programs

10 Comments on “A Tale of One State: Pennsylvania”

  1. AnonymousReader Says:

    MSP pass/fail stats are intentionally skewed. A “Reride”(retested student)is counted as another student trained, inflating the total.

  2. wmoon Says:

    And you know this how? Can you back this up? Can you give us a sense of how many students we’re talking about so we have an idea of how off the stats are? Do you know when this policy started? What do you mean “intentionally” skewed?

    Though I have to say I have heard of that rerides are counted as a new student.

    Otoh, if MSF padded its figures by such things for one reason or another, it’s on TPTB if the bad data comes back to trouble them.

  3. aidanspa Says:

    Very interesting that the annual did-not-graduate percentage dropped 50% after BRC was rolled out, and stayed at the lower 6-8% every year thereafter. Probably a fluke.

  4. wmoon Says:

    Yeah, I hear seven-year flukes are all the rage–especially flukes that lead to more motorcycle sales.
    W.

  5. Bob Says:

    It seems in PA, two years after a change in training, there is a spike in fatalities. From what anectdotes I recall, that seems to fit with the notion that complaceny sets in a bit later than Hurt’s study indicated… the second season after purchase/start of riding career, rather than the 6 months window I was taught in ’85.

    Targeting an acceptable failure rate is not something the course providers should be trusted with….. For the same reasons other teachers have to avoid ‘teaching the test’. Vested self interest corrupts the process.

    It would be of interest to find the rate of failure year on year in other state’s programs, to see if the pass fail ratio stays so incredibly stable.

  6. wmoon Says:

    I’m not sure the 2-year thing is accurate. I’ll ask Harry about it though and see if he has anything to say about it. I would go further and say that the ones who profit in the billions of dollars from more people passing a course or licensing test should not be the ones to set the standards for course or licensing test. And if you want to see “teaching to the test” just look at the RiderCoach Guide–it stresses when the exercise is taught what to do to help the student pass the test–and the new licensing test coaches the examiner on how to help the student pass the licensing test. But as long as good men are willing to put up with such unethical behavior, things will continue just as they are.

    You have a good idea about finding out what the failure rate is in other states. Thanks. I’ll look into it.

  7. Bob Says:

    It’s particularly a concern when there are statements made to the effect that the self managed program is trying to prove equivelency to remove state control of lisencing….. then it’s REALLY the fox minding the chicken coop. Who makes that evaluation? A process bought and paid for by the Fox?

  8. A. Tam Says:

    Wow. Single digit percentage failure rates… Pennsylvania must have genetically superior riders and/or BRC Instructors- strike that- RiderCoaches.

    Having taught since 2002, I can tell you this… I have never experienced a single digit failure rate percentage. I would say, ballpark, my average completion rate is 70 – 80%.

    We don’t allow retests. Students who fail riding or written must retake the entire class.

  9. wmoon Says:

    Bob, MSF got the driver’s license-waiver–which effective removed an independent outside control (through the DMV–even though they use MSF licensing products). Years after the fact, MSF decided it had to show the end-of-course-evaluations were equivalent to the tests at the DMV. Most people normally ask for proof before giving something like the driver’s license-waiver, but not in this case.

    And yes, MSF is paying PIRE to evaluate whether its curricular products measure up to its licensing products.

  10. Bob Says:

    So now the training program is at the point of CYA once again….. and this time it’s throwing dollars at the discrepancy. Care to bet what the findings of the review are?


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